It's difficult to know who looked more lost inside Atletico Madrid's Metropolitano - Antonin Kinsky or Igor Tudor.
On Tuesday night in Spain, in the very stadium where Tottenham suffered their most painful moment of recent memory - up to this point - six-and-a-half years ago, they managed to conjure up new depths from which to self destruct.
Kinsky suffered 16 minutes of humiliation while Tudor has suffered 26 days of pain, while realising what a mess Spurs are in.
The Croatian has not even made a dent. Nothing has improved from Thomas Frank's era, who in turn improved nothing from Ange Postecoglou's tenure. All signs point to an overriding problem more deeply rooted within the club.
On Tuesday night in the rain in Madrid, Tudor bore a resemblance to two very different characters. With his cap on his head, he stirred memories of Martin Jol's final game in the Tottenham dugout against another Spanish side Getafe. The Dutchman at least had made a big impact on the club before that point.
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Tudor also bears the slightest of resemblances to Arnold Vosloo's titular character in The Mummy movies, but like Imhotep, the Croatian has been unable to resurrect himself or Spurs and instead they are disintegrating towards a ghastly demise.
The 47-year-old has made very little positive impact on the players. His attempts to instil discipline have backfired. football.london understands that some inside the dressing room believe he has over asserted himself and instead come across as disrespectful to some and borderline mocking to others.
Antonio Conte came into the club with a similar tough, no holds barred style, attempting to wake up the players but his approach came with authority, aura and a dazzling track record.
Tudor has not got that to tap into. Some of the players have been unhappy with the training sessions, Tudor missing the impact of his usual right-hand man Ivan Javorcic in the process with his compatriot entangled in work permit complications.
Big players have been pushed to the side. Xavi Simons has been marginalised despite Spurs screaming out for creativity and new signing Conor Gallagher reduced to a substitute role. Nobody looks to have any confidence about what is going on inside the club or where it is currently heading.
The Kinsky and Guglielmo Vicario mess was the latest selection blunder from the interim head coach and neither the dropping of the popular Italian nor the embarrassment suffered by the hapless Czech would have done his standing within the dressing room any good.
The images of Tudor snubbing Kinsky as he walked off the pitch, rather than attempting to have a word in the young keeper's ear about the decision and the enormity of what this night could mean for his career spoke volumes.
Spurs substitutes Dominic Solanke, Gallagher and Joao Palhinha instead ran from the bench and down the tunnel, attempting to console him.
Then there was the strange Cristian Romero moment with Tudor just before Kinsky was removed. The captain came over to speak to the interim boss at length on the touchline and as soon as they finished, the Croatian turned to Vicario and the change was made. Tudor claimed afterwards that it was "My decision, of course" and that he had spoken to Kinsky in the dressing room afterwards.
"He was sorry. He made an excuse for the team. The team is with him. Me too. I was speaking with him," he said. "He understands the moment. He understands why he came out. So, as I said before, he is a very good goalkeeper. We are all together. It is not about one player. So, it has happened. Champions League again. These things."
Spurs imploded in the opening 22 minutes in Madrid, due to their goalkeeper's fragile confidence and players slipping all over the rain-sodden Metropolitano turf.
Just six minutes in, Kinsky slipped onto his backside as he went to pass the ball and ended up hitting it straight to Ademola Lookman on the edge of the Spurs box. The winger passed inside to Julian Alvarez and the former Manchester City man teed up Marcos Llorente to score.
Micky van de Ven was next to slip at a crucial moment on 14 minutes. The Dutchman tumbled and allowed Pape Matar Sarr's pass to roll through to Antoine Griezmann and the experienced Frenchman ran through to beat Kinsky with ease.
While those two goals could be chalked up to slips and the wrong studs, the third Atletico goal two minutes later was purely a horrendous gaffe from Kinsky. He scuffed a simple pass in his box just a yard in front of him to Alvarez, who ran on and poked the ball into the empty net.
The Atletico attacker had enough time to glance back at Kinsky lying on the turf with his hands on his head before gratefully tapping home.
Then came Kinsky's withdrawal and the awkward call for Vicario to replace his replacement. The Italian could not prevent things getting worse on 22 minutes. He made a reflex save to stop Sarr's header flying into his own net from a Griezmann free-kick, but Robin Le Normand headed the loose ball over the line despite Vicario getting something on it.
The irony was that Atletico were not incredible on the night and Tottenham were not dreadful. They conceded three ridiculous goals in those opening minutes but had enough chances to take a result back to north London that could have been turned around.
Pedro Porro fired a low shot into the net to grab one back before the break and Romero sent a header against the outside of the right-hand post. However, Atletico got a fifth goal just 10 minutes into the second half. Richarlison saw his header saved brilliantly at one end by Jan Oblak only for the home side to break up the pitch with Alvarez running through, Porro unable to keep up and eventually giving up as the attacker slotted home clinically.
Solanke did fire another back for Spurs with a powerful effort after Oblak hit his own poor kick straight to Porro and the right-back found the striker to smash home.
However, the problems only got worse for Spurs as they ended the game with nine men on the pitch after Palhinha and Romero clashed heads in added time. The Portuguese staggered off the pitch soon after and the captain played on only to crouch in the centre circle before walking off a minute before the final whistle blew.
Both men could miss Sunday's trip to Liverpool and more crucial games if they are found to have concussion.
"Also, an example of the moment. It is incredible," Tudor told football.london. "It is incredible. We finished the game and we see the two players and there is Micky [Van de Ven], who is already out [against Liverpool] with a red card. Sometimes it is difficult to explain. It looks like everything is against us. Incredible things."
Tudor was asked whether he deserved to carry on as Spurs manager after four defeats in four games and ensuring that Tottenham lost six consecutive matches for the first time in their entire history. "No comment," he replied with a disdainful look.
Has this become an impossible job for the beleaguered Croatian? "I am not taking it that way. I recognise what we are and which problems we have. I recognise that every game, something happens. Sometimes it is very difficult to explain. I see also the wish of the players to do the right things," he said.
"We started good, let's say. These two or three minutes, I feel it during the game. These things, when they happen, what I said before, in the moment where we are now, unfortunately, it is like that. Even these slippery things happen, it explains the moment, because they didn't do it. The pitch was the same for both teams."
Tottenham will be scrambling behind the scenes with the club's next press conference required to be on Friday ahead of Sunday's trip to Anfield. The Tottenham Hotspur Supporters' Trust called for immediate action in a statement after the game.
"Tonight’s performance and result is a total disgrace. It’s symptomatic of the abysmal state of things at Spurs right now," it read. "From the January transfer window to the management appointments, the lack of leadership and the total absence of anyone with a Spurs pedigree informing these decisions. Where is the Daring to Do? Where are the Echoes of Glory?
"Emergency action is needed as right now we are sleep walking off the edge of a cliff. Being a Spurs fan has never been so difficult but supporters will not sit by and watch the club continue to decline. There will be more to follow…
"At the very least those in Madrid should have their match tickets refunded. But all we really care about is that the club make us proud. We are here to support the team and be the 12th man. But we all deserve so much more."
There's nothing to disagree with there. Spurs now have to come up with a plan to fix the plan that failed to fix the previous plan. The Tudor experiment is only four games old but all the signs are already there that it will not work.
There is a shortage of obvious replacements. Tottenham need someone who understands how this chaotic club works. The logic behind Tudor was sound with his football firefighting history but it has failed because he does not know Spurs and being unable to bring his right-hand man was farcical.
Watching over it all on Tuesday night was former Spurs boss Mauricio Pochettino, alongside his wife Karina, a guest of Atletico as the USA coach kept an eye on their midfielder Johnny Cardoso ahead of the World Cup.
The Argentine was returning to the scene of Tottenham's Champions League final defeat to Liverpool in 2019, where he shed tears on the pitch, and it was the first time he had watched his old club from the stands since.
The 54-year-old had been serenaded by Spurs fans on his flight to Madrid on Tuesday as they called for him to return to north London this summer. He would have seen the size of the task at the relegation-threatened club first hand.
One of his disciples is available right now. Ryan Mason would not be the popular choice of the fans over the nostalgic options from yesteryear of Redknapp and Hoddle.
However, the 34-year-old understands Spurs to its core, knows these players after recent coaching spells at the club and he's done this before, coming in to steady the ship on two previous occasions. If Pochettino is the summer plan - should Real Madrid not swoop - then there are few better handover coaches than Mason in terms of the style of play.
People will point to his tough time at West Brom but the Baggies horror show has continued long since his departure and points to bigger problems at play.
The same goes for Tottenham. The club is in dire straights and a decision must be taken on Tudor. It could be that they allow him to take the game at Anfield in order for any hoped new bounce rather than trounce against Forest, but a change must happen.
Mason's Spurs did almost grab a 3-3 comeback draw at Anfield only for an added time Diogo Jota goal to snatch away the point.
Some might also point out that Mason had Kane and Son to call upon in those days and Bale as well in his second spell, but someone needs to come in with a different voice and an understanding of a club that appears to have no idea of the way forward.
The post-Daniel Levy era was expected to bring the scrutiny away from those at the top of the club but CEO Vinai Venkatesham and sporting director Johan Lange find themselves firmly in the firing line.
Mistakes galore have been made and the duo must pull something out of the hat, otherwise they will be forever tainted as the duo who oversaw Tottenham's demise.
